Some of the statements I have heard expressed are these:
“Of course He celebrated Hanukkah, it’s a blessed holiday remembering a wonderful miracle in Israel’s history. Why not celebrate it? It has very positive religious overtones too. It’s among my favorite holidays”.
After the defeat of the Greeks and the purging of Jerusalem of the vestiges of their abominations, we dedicated a new altar according to the precise specifications prescribed in the Torah. It takes exactly eight days to dedicate a new altar. On the ninth day, the morning and evening oblation sacrifices began anew. This is the Feast that the Messiah was commemorating and endorsing this celebration with his prophetic stamp of approval. WWJD? It is Written! DWYD! Keep the Feast (I Cor, 5:8) or Be a Feast! (Rev. 19: 17-18).
The Feast of Hanukkah was a reality in Israel 613 years before the birth of Yahshua, but it is also a shadow picture of that which is going to take place after the Messiah confirms the Covenant that was made in his blood.”
John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.
My question is: Would Jesus be concerned about going to the temple knowing that:
King Herod was appointed by Rome, and was an Edomite brought into Judaism through a forced conversion, was not from the lineage of King David, and therefore probably not a valid King by the standard prescribed in the Torah:
Deu 17:15 You shall surely set him king over you, whom the LORD your God shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set king over you: you may not set a stranger over you, who is not your brother.
The priesthood and the scribes/teachers were probably not valid according to Torah, or at the very least questionable due to the fact that the Maccabees had instituted their own priestly system in place. They also usurped the throne of David, which God had proclaimed at an eternal kingship by anointing themselves as king.
John the Baptist (a Levite) knew. He declined to serve in the priesthood (his father was Zacharias Luke 1:5), and instead chose to prepare the way in the wilderness, and then offered them stern correction when the pharisees and saducees appeared there where he was Baptizing people for the REMISSION OF SINS (unheard of).
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Jesus also knew:
Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not according to their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost places at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But you be not called Rabbi: for one is your Teacher, even Christ; and all you are brothers.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you travel on sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The house of prayer had become a den of thieves.
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of thieves.
Because Jesus had come through the tribe of Judah
as prophesied, the Levitic line would now be broken, because of Him now becoming the Great High Priest. (Cohen Ha Gadol)
Heb 4:14 Then having a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast the confession.
Jesus knew that after His crucifixion, the veil would be torn by an unseen hand (God) and that the acceptance of sacrifice would now cease, even according to Jewish writings.
Mat 27:51 And, behold! The veil of the temple was torn into two from above as far as below. And the earth quaked, and the rocks were sheared!
Jesus also knew that the destruction of the temple was to be fullfilled in the near future. (70 ce)
Mat 24:2 But Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There will not at all be left one stone on a stone which in no way will not be thrown down.
Not only the temple, but the parts of city as well:
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
Jesus made this statement:
Mat 12:6 But I say to you, One greater than the temple is here.
It should be noted that Jesus was on Solomon’s porch, a place where gentiles congregated (outer court).The Temple built by Solomon did not have a court of the Gentiles. The great court/porch referred to in 2 Chronicles was for the Israelites to worship God, and surrounded the inner court. This is not the same porch that is mentioned in John 10.
When Jesus was in Solomon’s Porch as written in John 10, He was not there to celebrate the Feast of Dedication, but was walking in the court of the Gentiles that was built by Herod. It was built so that non-Jews could access a view of the Temple without defiling the Temple
http://web.archive.org/web/20071215105720/http://biblia.com/bible/temp-herod.htm
Would Jesus be celebrating with the same Pharisees and Sadducees and others who were plotting to kill Him when He was there as it is written?
John 10:22 And the Feast of Dedication took place in Jerusalem, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon’s Porch.
24 Then the Jews encircled Him, and said to Him, Until when do You lift up our soul? If You are the Christ, tell us publicly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you did not believe. The works which I do in the name of My Father, these bear witness about Me.
26 But you do not believe for you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give eternal life to them, and they shall not perish to the age, never! And not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of My Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One!
31 Then again the Jews took up stones, that they might stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, I showed you many good works from My Father. For which work of them do you stone Me?
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Has it not been written in your Law, “I said, you are gods”?
35 If He called those gods with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme, because I said, I am Son of God?
37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me.
38 But if I do, even if you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may perceive and may believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.
39 Then again they sought to seize Him. And He went forth from their hand.
40 And He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John was at first baptizing and remained there.
According to the Scriptural account, Jesus went to the temple, possibly to teach, and then ended up schooling the Pharisees and Sadducees in front of a large crowd. He never went to where the Jews congregated, as the Pharisees and Sadducees came to Him and then circled Him at the court of the Gentiles, sought to kill him, and then again tried to seize Him. After this incident is written that He then left the temple.
And then there is this passage and the statement that Jesus made before He went to the temple:
John 4:20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where it is necessary to worship.
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me that an hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him.
24 God is a spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.
Does anyone believe that Jesus had a chanukkiah (nine branch menorah) which was devised by men, and not commanded by God as the seven branch menorah was. The miracle of the oil is merely a legend, and is not historically accurate. There is no mention of it in the apocryphal- historical writings of either Maccabees 1 or 2 (63 bce – 25ce). The legend was first introduced into Judaism in the talmud. (200-500 CE).
Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south will be raised in the Judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and, behold, a Greater-than-Solomon is here.
Chanukkah was a celebration of the Jews (Maccabees) kicking the tar out of the Greeks. Does anyone think that Jesus went to celebrate this with the gentiles who ancestors were defeated? This would be like going into the deep south and asking the people there to celebrate the defeat of their ancestors in the civil war. He probably went there to teach, and to reach the gentiles who would hear.
I like gelt as much as the next person, but does anyone think that Jesus was spinning a dreidle which has kabbalistic connotations? The Chanukiah, the legend of the oil, the dreidle, the gelt, etc are all late rabbinic additions that occured after the time of Christ, and have noting to do with first century Judaism.. To think that He celebrated Chanukkah in the modern sense as we know it can not be proven historically or Scripturally.
If you remove all the modern day practices from Chanukkah that had nothing to do with the celebration at the time of Jesus, then all you have is left is to go to the temple………but that is gone too.
As a recap then, there is no Biblical proof that Jesus “celebrated” Chanukkah. He was at the temple in the court of the Gentiles for a time debating with the pharisees, and then He left.
While I agree with you that John 10:22 does not specifically state that Jesus celebrated the Feast of Dedication the year in which He went to the temple, as described in John, it does put Him there when the Feast was being celebrated. The original purpose of the Feast was to rededicate the temple. If your argument is that the priesthood was ruined by the Maccabees or the ways the Pharisees and Sadducees were running things it seems to make sense that Jesus went to the temple to celebrate the Feast the way it was supposed to be celebrated in order to rededicate the temple to God. This would be similar to His repeated admonishments regarding the Sabbath and the ways the Pharisees had over-regulated it. If there is fault with my extrapolation, please let me know, but I would ask that you then also justify your extrapolation that John the Baptist declined the priesthood because of the Maccabees as I find nothing in the Bible to make this case.
Channukah is not a prescribed feast. The New Testament also describes the census that Rome took. Jesus was there for that. Why not have a Census Day. I think we are splitting a hair. We should follow the Feasts of God, but not confuse National days for “Holi Days”. Beside if it is not prescribed by God should we partake as if it is a “religious” holiday anyway. I think of the sons of a Levite that in their inept eagerness filled their Scensors with coal and put incense on them when they weren’t told to do so….Unauthorized fire. They were burnt up right there! Many times we do things we are told not to do…but 7×70 that we do things we are not told to do. Should our walk not be like him.
Roger,
After reading both 1 & 2 Maccabees, it seems quite obvious that they took it upon themselves to “make war” against the Romans to “rescue” the Temple and then rededicate it to God. There was never any instruction by God to do so. The prophets had foretold of its destruction and already in Chronicles we read that the Temple was defiled and many of its artifacts and utensils removed. The Ark of the Covenant disappeared.
From my way of thinking, that means God removed His presence from it and a false priestly system was invoked under the guise of piety. The bottom line is that God did not authorize the Temple re-dedication nor did He authorize that it be re-instituted.
Let me put it this way. David wanted to build the Temple, but God said, no – his hands were bloody because he was a man of war – therefore; Solomon would build it. So I am wondering why God would instruct war mongers to murder on the altar, make war on the Sabbath day, and then re-dedicate and purify the Temple with bloodied hands. I am sure that Judas thought he had a really good idea, but he should have been studying the OT instead of rebuilding what God brought down.
The temple was built by Herod who was an edomite and cursed. I am not sure how one can arrive at the opinion that Jesus celebrated a feast there knowing the Temple would be destroyed, a false priestly system in place, and a corrupt king on the throne [Jesus was greater than and replaced the Temple, as He stated]. John is clear, He was walking on the porch during the rededication feast, not celebrating it. The Jewish leaders were incited to wrath because of His presence there. It does not add up that He was there to celebrate anything.
John the Baptist knew of the issues surrounding the Temple and moved by the Holy Spirit did not pursue his priestly duties. He was sent by God to prepare the way for Christ – he was representative of Elijah [non-Levite], as Jesus showed us. Why would John, who understood and confronted the Pharisees for their corrupt system, want to be involved in it? John knew who Jesus was and why He came and was more than familiar with the OT prophecies concerning the Messiah. It is quite reasonable to state that John wanted nothing to do with a corrupt system.
Jeff,
If one is to “keep the feasts”, I am wondering how one can do so without the Temple and without a priestly sacrificial system? According to Hebrews, that system is now gone, taking with it the need to keep the feasts – as all have been fulfilled in Christ.
My next question, for those who keep the feasts without the sacrifices, what would be your scriptural mandate to do so? According to Torah, the feasts were to be kept according to God’s instructions. Can you show me where He changed them to allow one to keep them other than what He commanded?
Just some thoughts. It seems to me that the expectations that one puts on themselves by pushing back to a time and a history that is far removed from the covenant we now have with God in Christ is a tremendous burden without resolution, and trust me, I know only too well how heavy that yoke was.
“I am not sure how one can arrive at the opinion that Jesus celebrated a feast there knowing the Temple would be destroyed, a false priestly system in place, and a corrupt king on the throne [Jesus was greater than and replaced the Temple, as He stated].”
The following verses are how I come to my conclusions about feasts and the temple and Jesus
Not about feasting or teaching in the temple, but it does establish that the temple is considered God’s house by Jesus, which would also lead me to believe that God did not remove His presence from the temple – John 2:16 – And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!”
While the feast is Sukkot, Jesus still teaches in the temple and attends a feast celebration in the temple – John 7:14 – Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught
And this from Jesus’ childhood, getting back to teaching with a touch listening to religious authorities of the day – Matthew 2:46 – Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, when Jesus started His ministry, we have no proof that He was in the Temple proper, only on Solomon’s Porch, which again was not part of the Temple, but an addition by Herod for the gentiles.
That God honored the sacrifices and the priesthood, was purely His grace. The temple was defiled.
I am curious, the John 7:14 verse shows a context of Jesus teaching the people and the Jews want to take hold of Him. Now that seems a little odd if He was in the Temple proper. Why would they allow Him to teach there to begin with knowing His propensity for teaching what they hated to hear and secondly, laying hands on Him would not exactly be “holy” behavior. Just thinking 🙂
“on December 24, 2008 at 9:06 pm fortheloveoftruth
Roger,
After reading both 1 & 2 Maccabees, it seems quite obvious that they took it upon themselves to “make war” against the Romans to “rescue” the Temple and then rededicate it to God. There was never any instruction by God to do so. The prophets had foretold of its destruction and already in Chronicles we read that the Temple was defiled and many of its artifacts and utensils removed. The Ark of the Covenant disappeared.”
The Jews were forbidden to worship God, to circumscise their sons, to read scripture, and keep the Sabbath, and were being forced to assimmilate into Greek culture and religion. Sounds a lot like the final Anti-Christ to me: Antiochus Epiphanes was his name. He put a statue of himself in the temple and sacrificed a pig on the altar! I for one am GLAD the Maccabbee revolted against this Greek general or there would have been no Judaism or scripture for Jesus to come and fulfill. Once again the enemy of our souls sought to exterminate the Jewish people and thwart the coming of Messiah.
“The temple was built by Herod who was an edomite and cursed.”
This is not quite accurate. God brought back the captivity of Judah from Babylon after 70 years of exile, as Jeremiah prophesied He would. God used King Cyrus to sent the Jews back to Jerusalem to build a temple, which God approved of. Herod’s temple was not a new one since thise second temple was built in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah. He merely enlarged it and made it more beautiful.
As far as celebrating the Feast of Dedication, there was no temple service I am aware of. The Macabbees just said to feast and send gifts to each other to commemorate the rededication of the Temple of God. John 10 merely states Jesus was walking in the porch of Solomon. It does not say whether he celebrated the Feast or not.
Carol
Carol, you may want to read my article on Hanukkah – it will give you a clearer view of my comments that you responded to. Thanx 🙂
I did read your article. It’s very good. But Antiochus was Greek. This was before the Romans. He had desecrated the temple God Himself sent Jews back after captivity to build. Why wouldn’t they revolt against Antiochus and cleanse the temple? Why wouldn’t they want to be able to freely worship God as He had commanded them to? Why would they need a special “word” from God to fight against this wicked King?
I see Hannukkah as a time to reflect on the consequences of assimmilation into this wicked world system and to confess sins and cleanse my own temple.
Why wouldn’t Jesus be glad that someone stood up for righteousness? If they hadn’t, there would have been NO NATION OF ISRAEL for Jesus to be born into and we would all be in a terrible fix.
Blessings,
Carol
Someone sent me this asking, what did I think. Well I was tempted to stop reading when I got to: ” the Feast of Hanukkah was a reality in Israel 613 years before the birth of Yahshua”. unfortunately I carried on and got cerebral indegestion! 613 years without any source ref! Maybe the writer doesn’t know the difference between 613 mitzvot and 63 BC. This is ignorant rubbish of the type that too often circulates on Christian blogs- not worth a critique!
That was something that I quoted from Michael Rood to show the idiocy circulating in the Messianic Movement and what he has dumped into Christianity. But thanx for the comment 🙂
You should be more careful with quotation marks and how you group them!
There are not many ‘messianic’ or ‘Torah’ sites that I would want to sing about, but may I commend [link deleted] to you. Tim Hegg is a careful and well read scholar. Though there will be much there to challenge some of your positions, I think you will find it a helpful resource and which represents what here in the UK, I would like to think of as ‘messianic’ (a label which I think you use to casually).
Mosh (UK)
I don’t think you looked at the article too closely. It is obvious that I clearly indicated quotes from others. And they show inside of huge quotation marks! 🙂
Tim Hegg was part of FFOZ, which I understand he now separated from. Apparently he was displeased with their latest open policy of promoting kabbalah and the Talmud. However; Mr Hegg has openly taught kabbalah and the Talmud since he joined with FFOZ and FFOZ has promoted kabbalah and the Talmud since the beginning but covertly. The last couple of years they have “come out of the closet” with their new “Vine of David”, the e-drash and e-drosh – both email postings that teach kabbalah and the Talmud. caveat emptor.