Comments on: Should We Keep the Mosaic Law (Torah)? Part 1 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/ Unapologetically, an apologetic blog - God's Truth Prevails Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:50:36 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: fortheloveoftruth http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/#comment-522 fortheloveoftruth Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:36:21 +0000 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-522 <strong>The mikveh is part of Judaism, it is not Jewish "baptism". I am not against Judaism's practices, what I try to do is show Messianics is that what they practice and how they observe the Law is not based on Scripture, but on a system [Rabbinical Judaism] that denies Jesus Christ and denigrates Him. Judaism rejects Christ as the Messiah, therefore; it's traditions are outside what New Covenant believers should be practicing. For the Love of Truth, sheep wrecked</strong> The mikveh is part of Judaism, it is not Jewish “baptism”. I am not against Judaism’s practices, what I try to do is show Messianics is that what they practice and how they observe the Law is not based on Scripture, but on a system [Rabbinical Judaism] that denies Jesus Christ and denigrates Him. Judaism rejects Christ as the Messiah, therefore; it’s traditions are outside what New Covenant believers should be practicing.

For the Love of Truth,
sheep wrecked

]]> By: eric http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/#comment-297 eric Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:15:45 +0000 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-297 Eric: so basically, what is sin for one, may not be sin for another? because what the spirit writes on my heart may not be what he writes on someone else’s. believers in the NT <strong>sheep: The Law of Christ is written on the heart. It’s the same for all. Although some of the laws are the same as Torah, it has changed significantly. Torah was given as the old covenant, the one God said would not be like the new covenant because Israel could not keep it and broke the old covenant {Jeremiah 31:31,32} </strong> Eric: believers in the NT DID have a bible…it was called Torah. <strong>sheep: The Bible is all 66 books, not just Torah. They had the Gospel as spoken by the disciples/apostles, and the letters which were circulated by the middle of the first century. Some of the letters quote each other and the Gospels. Jesus specifically stated that the disciples had received His Word, as taught by Him on earth, and this is what they would teach to believers.</strong> Eric: Jesus is greater than moses, but it wasn’t Moses’ law, it was God’s. <strong>sheep: Jesus called it the Law of Moses, as does other Scripture. It means the same thing, because God gave the Law to Moses. It’s not Jesus is greater then Moses but :) If Jesus is greater than Moses, then His Words are greater and Jesus stated that His law was “new”. The people stated He taught a “new doctrine” and what He taught they had never heard before. They marveled at His Words. Even the Pharisees and Scribes were amazed at what He taught and hated Him for it. Then they plotted His death. Obviously they knew He was not teaching Torah :)</strong> Eric: You say that if it’s not possible to keep some commands, we should not keep any of it. Imagine if our children grew up with that kind of mindset! If a father told his son, “Son, mow the lawn while I’m gone.” and he goes out and sees that the mower has gas for mowing only half the lawn so he says, “well if i can’t mow all of it i just won’t mow any of it.” Do you think the father would be pleased upon his arrival back home? <strong>sheep: I never stated this. It might have been in the article I posted. What I would do is refer you to James who stated that if one breaks one of the Laws, they have broken them all. Which proves you cannot keep any of it. </strong> Eric: Or why when Israel was in exile did God promise to gather them back in if they kept his commands?! They couldn’t do most of them! They were in captivity for crying out loud! <strong>sheep: I think they call that circular reasoning. The reason they were in captivity is because they DID NOT keep Torah. So of course they could not keep it in captivity, they didn’t want to. They rebelled and God did as He promised wayyyyy back in Deut. – He sent them into captivity. It’s called a consequence for rebellion :) </strong> Eric: so basically, what is sin for one, may not be sin for another? because what the spirit writes on my heart may not be what he writes on someone else’s. believers in the NT

sheep: The Law of Christ is written on the heart. It’s the same for all. Although some of the laws are the same as Torah, it has changed significantly. Torah was given as the old covenant, the one God said would not be like the new covenant because Israel could not keep it and broke the old covenant {Jeremiah 31:31,32}

Eric: believers in the NT DID have a bible…it was called Torah.

sheep: The Bible is all 66 books, not just Torah. They had the Gospel as spoken by the disciples/apostles, and the letters which were circulated by the middle of the first century. Some of the letters quote each other and the Gospels. Jesus specifically stated that the disciples had received His Word, as taught by Him on earth, and this is what they would teach to believers.

Eric: Jesus is greater than moses, but it wasn’t Moses’ law, it was God’s.

sheep: Jesus called it the Law of Moses, as does other Scripture. It means the same thing, because God gave the Law to Moses. It’s not Jesus is greater then Moses but :) If Jesus is greater than Moses, then His Words are greater and Jesus stated that His law was “new”. The people stated He taught a “new doctrine” and what He taught they had never heard before. They marveled at His Words. Even the Pharisees and Scribes were amazed at what He taught and hated Him for it. Then they plotted His death. Obviously they knew He was not teaching Torah :)

Eric: You say that if it’s not possible to keep some commands, we should not keep any of it. Imagine if our children grew up with that kind of mindset! If a father told his son, “Son, mow the lawn while I’m gone.” and he goes out and sees that the mower has gas for mowing only half the lawn so he says, “well if i can’t mow all of it i just won’t mow any of it.” Do you think the father would be pleased upon his arrival back home?

sheep: I never stated this. It might have been in the article I posted. What I would do is refer you to James who stated that if one breaks one of the Laws, they have broken them all. Which proves you cannot keep any of it.

Eric: Or why when Israel was in exile did God promise to gather them back in if they kept his commands?! They couldn’t do most of them! They were in captivity for crying out loud!

sheep: I think they call that circular reasoning. The reason they were in captivity is because they DID NOT keep Torah. So of course they could not keep it in captivity, they didn’t want to. They rebelled and God did as He promised wayyyyy back in Deut. – He sent them into captivity. It’s called a consequence for rebellion :)

]]> By: fortheloveoftruth http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/#comment-248 fortheloveoftruth Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:05:42 +0000 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-248 <strong>Brad, Our code of conduct comes from Jesus Christ, which we find in the NT. I have to chuckle over your the NT defines sin as breaking Torah. I sometimes have to just shake my head at how the Messianic movement has skewed people’s thinking and “adjusted” God’s Word to fill a theological need. With the New Covenant bought in the precious blood of Christ, we are given the Holy Spirit and the NT to show us sin. Torah was the schoolmaster UNTIL Christ. In Him, there is a transformed, newly created heart which is convicted by the Holy Spirit as to what is acceptable or not in God’s eyes. You know, there are millions of believers in Christ who do not have a Bible. Most in the NT did not. But they have Christ. In Christ is all that we need. Jesus is greater than Moses. Jesus did not suffer and die so that we could all be transported back into an archaic system that shows no mercy for the sinner. How sad that you are promoting such an empty hopeless system of religion. How precious Jesus is. In Him is Hope, Peace, Joy, Love, Grace, Mercy, and unity with God. How sweet that God reconciled us to Himself through Christ and that one can be filled with His Spirit and know the truth, regardless if they have a Bible in hand or not. I am so sorry that Torah is more important to you than Jesus Christ. Do you not realize that you are trampling the Son of God to death with your refusal to accept the New Covenant bought and redeemed at the most terrible price God would extract from His own Son? May God open your eyes to His glorious truth and freedom in Christ, sheep wrecked</strong> Brad,

Our code of conduct comes from Jesus Christ, which we find in the NT. I have to chuckle over your the NT defines sin as breaking Torah. I sometimes have to just shake my head at how the Messianic movement has skewed people’s thinking and “adjusted” God’s Word to fill a theological need. With the New Covenant bought in the precious blood of Christ, we are given the Holy Spirit and the NT to show us sin. Torah was the schoolmaster UNTIL Christ. In Him, there is a transformed, newly created heart which is convicted by the Holy Spirit as to what is acceptable or not in God’s eyes.

You know, there are millions of believers in Christ who do not have a Bible. Most in the NT did not. But they have Christ. In Christ is all that we need. Jesus is greater than Moses. Jesus did not suffer and die so that we could all be transported back into an archaic system that shows no mercy for the sinner. How sad that you are promoting such an empty hopeless system of religion. How precious Jesus is. In Him is Hope, Peace, Joy, Love, Grace, Mercy, and unity with God. How sweet that God reconciled us to Himself through Christ and that one can be filled with His Spirit and know the truth, regardless if they have a Bible in hand or not.

I am so sorry that Torah is more important to you than Jesus Christ. Do you not realize that you are trampling the Son of God to death with your refusal to accept the New Covenant bought and redeemed at the most terrible price God would extract from His own Son?

May God open your eyes to His glorious truth and freedom in Christ,
sheep wrecked

]]> By: Brad http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/#comment-228 Brad Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:42:36 +0000 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-228 So I am assuming that there is no code of conduct for anyone to live by? Without Torah, there is no code for people to live by. Since it is not specifically outlawed in the "new testament", sex with animals, most idol worship, not keeping the Sabbath etc is ok, right? What about sin? What is sin? Even the new testament defines sin as breaking of the Torah. Are we called to sin? No. Therefore we keep Torah. Your perception of these verses is very skewed. You need to learn your history, read Romans (go to the strongs and learn the REAL meaning behind what was said here) and begin to reconcile the entire word. Kefa's warning needs to be heard here. You can take the writings of Shaul (paul) out of context if you are 1. unlearned which it seems you obviously are, or 2 unstable, which we all can be at times. If you do this, you are meeting your own destruction. Not my words, Kefas (peter). Also look up the term "error of the wicked" at the end of this. Guess what it is? Lawlessness. 2 Peter 3:16 As 5613 also 2532 in 1722 all 3956 [his] epistles 1992, speaking 2980 in 1722 them 846 of 4012 these things 5130; in 1722 which 3739 are 2076 some things 5100 hard to be understood 1425, which 3739 they that are unlearned 261 and 2532 unstable 793 wrest 4761 , as 5613 [they do] also 2532 the other 3062 scriptures 1124, unto 4314 their 846 own 2398 destruction 684. vs. 17 Ye 5210 therefore 3767, beloved 27, seeing ye know [these things] before 4267 , beware 5442 lest 3363 ye also 1601 0, being led away 4879 with the error 4106 of the wicked 113, fall from 1601 your own 2398 stedfastness 4740. So I am assuming that there is no code of conduct for anyone to live by? Without Torah, there is no code for people to live by. Since it is not specifically outlawed in the “new testament”, sex with animals, most idol worship, not keeping the Sabbath etc is ok, right? What about sin? What is sin? Even the new testament defines sin as breaking of the Torah. Are we called to sin? No. Therefore we keep Torah.

Your perception of these verses is very skewed. You need to learn your history, read Romans (go to the strongs and learn the REAL meaning behind what was said here) and begin to reconcile the entire word.

Kefa’s warning needs to be heard here. You can take the writings of Shaul (paul) out of context if you are 1. unlearned which it seems you obviously are, or 2 unstable, which we all can be at times. If you do this, you are meeting your own destruction. Not my words, Kefas (peter). Also look up the term “error of the wicked” at the end of this. Guess what it is? Lawlessness.

2 Peter 3:16
As 5613 also 2532 in 1722 all 3956 [his] epistles 1992, speaking 2980 in 1722 them 846 of 4012 these things 5130; in 1722 which 3739 are 2076 some things 5100 hard to be understood 1425, which 3739 they that are unlearned 261 and 2532 unstable 793 wrest 4761 , as 5613 [they do] also 2532 the other 3062 scriptures 1124, unto 4314 their 846 own 2398 destruction 684.

vs. 17
Ye 5210 therefore 3767, beloved 27, seeing ye know [these things] before 4267 , beware 5442 lest 3363 ye also 1601 0, being led away 4879 with the error 4106 of the wicked 113, fall from 1601 your own 2398 stedfastness 4740.

]]> By: truthseeker http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/should-we-keep-the-mosaic-law-torah/#comment-54 truthseeker Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:33:58 +0000 http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-54 Excellent -- nicely done. So true!! "Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Galatians 5:1 Excellent — nicely done. So true!!

“Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1

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